How can we improve the guild in 2015?

[nickgsimon]

Convert To Raid, so we promote Raid, we are raiders and we need to help any raider to feel at home, so I guess the best way to improve is to have the CTRs teams posting their runs on OpenRaid with this CTR will be open to even more people around other servers, people which is no on Aerie Peak will have the opportunity to know more about CTR, get interested and we also promote this magnificent tool with lots and lots of Raiders, data, events, etc.

I believe Pat Krane, Koltrane and Dairies are leaders in promoting The WoW Community, so let's open our raid runs in a strategy we can call Convert to Open Raid


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[nickgsimon]

Guild Portals, sadly in my opinion there's no user and social friendly - wow connected - mobile UI for a guild portal. CTR have done it by themselves without using the common guild portals. If we can have a place to post our guilds together with shared data and extracting data from armory, wowprogress, logs, amr and even open raid this will be very hot to really use it


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[Weru]

...

Incoming "pie in the sky" vaporware feature request

One thing that I think could help a great deal would be an in-game guild group/raid app. Much like Blizzards current LFD tool, but more focused toward CtR. I would envision something very similar to the Blizzard group creator, but would also have calendaring to list out future events for more structured raid/event organization.

Just knowing a few friends who have returned, but have chaotic schedules that do not allow them to commit to a team makes me believe a good majority or our players are in a similar situation. Blizzards LFD tool is a huge step forward, but you have to go outside of our community which means you do not make real connections. People also resist using webpages and forums. Having the ability in game to bring up a ctrlfd tool and see a list of adhoc as well as future raid and guild events would help out a great majority of our players.
...

Have you looked athttp://www.converttoraid.com/guild recently? The events module is good for one offs. To pull back the curtain a bit, the Raid Planner tool is coming along and will have several nifty features. Not sure if you're wanting an in game addon, but part of the creedo (Community) means having CTRLFO be open to people outside the CTR family.

Hey Hasteur,

In game is exactly the meat of my post. I respect the work that has been put into the web app, but believe mods such as Blizzards groupfinder and before that oQueue out-shown web alternatives such as OpenRaid due to convenience as well as its ability to put groups together on the fly (without having to alt tab out of it). Anything out of game (forums included) is an uphill battle. As far as it being open to the rest of the server, it wouldn't be my decision as I am not a creator, only a suggester. I will say though that many people enjoy staying within guild for their groups, if it is just an option than we have the best of both worlds. Also easier as our Mumble server is not open to people outside the guild to the best of my knowledge (unless that has changed). I believe that CtR raid teams also stipulate CtR memberships. Not everything is open to the outside is what I am getting at, but an alternative for it is a good idea for this hypothetical mod for sure.

Just looking this over. There is an addon called Broker Raid Finder, that scans LFG and some other channels for people posting raid/groups. I posted a while back on how to mod the code to make it scan CTRLFG ( LINK HERE ) and that will pull up keywords that you're interested in out of CTRLFG/LFG/Trade/General and ping you. It was pretty handy back for Garry runs in SoO. I still like OpenRaid for full raids though, this is kind of a stop-gap to catch the post in chat.

[PatKrane]

Convert To Raid, so we promote Raid, we are raiders and we need to help any raider to feel at home, so I guess the best way to improve is to have the CTRs teams posting their runs on OpenRaid with this CTR will be open to even more people around other servers, people which is no on Aerie Peak will have the opportunity to know more about CTR, get interested and we also promote this magnificent tool with lots and lots of Raiders, data, events, etc.

I believe Pat Krane, Koltrane and Dairies are leaders in promoting The WoW Community, so let's open our raid runs in a strategy we can call Convert to Open Raid

We definitely are interested in supporting the greater community of WoW as best we can!

However, while we can encourage teams to open themselves up to supporting more, we can't enforce it. Every team has their own wants and needs, and each team is run a little bit differently than others. But I definitely know that some teams are using OpenRaid, the new group finder tool, etc. in order to play with folks around our community.

[Weru]

Bump*
Since this came up yesterday in Guild Chat and the guild raid tool that will be released "soon" (announced in MOP) was discussed, I reiterated that there already is a way to do this without having to invent something. Of course, it was shot down as too hard for officers to manage -- as opposed to our current system.

I was wondering if I could have a dialog with whoever is actually working on the guild raid tool (the pronoun people) to discuss just what golden eggs are gained by not using an intermediate level tool that also allows us to support Community, Teamwork, and Respect by opening some of our events to other raiders?

And from what I know of the current system (not the mystery tool) as a baseline:
1. It is operational now.
2. All sub-guilds are on one spreadsheet which in manually edited.
3. A Guild Officer has to scrub the spreadsheet vs the guild roster data on a schedule. (likely some automation and some manual processes)
4. Raid Team management is via emails, text, chat to contact the correct Officer to coordinate guild rank for repairs. (same in both systems)
4a. Raid Teams have a posting on the Team page.
5. Individuals must coordinate themselves for character moves to correct sub-guild. (same in both systems)
6. Calendar invites are manually done by raid teams.
7. The guild raid team schedule is updated manually as officers have time.
8. No easy way for Community Outreach Events.

----------------------

Here are the advantages that I see from the OpenRaid Solution (similar to guild alliances of old).
= 1. It is operational now.
= 2. We can merge ALL the sub-guilds into one large virtual guild.
+ 3. Guild management is simplified by linkage to Battle.net guild listing to handle people added or removed.
= 4. Raid Team management falls on the Raid Leader. NOTE* The requirement to coordinate guild rank for repairs would still exist.
+ 4a. Raid Teams may create their own separate virtual sub-guild if they like to make management / recruitment / sign-ups / team pages and team web sites that much easier. Individuals can be in as many virtual guilds as they want - go crazy.
= 5. Individuals must coordinate themselves for character moves to correct sub-guild.
+ 6. Individuals with OpenRaid accounts will receive emails of all events open to them to sign up for if they opt for the reminder.
+ 7. Events can be loaded to the in-game calendar via the OpenRaid add-on and the GroupCallendar addon.
+ 8. Existing teams could set up their existing raid schedules as reoccurring private guild events with their team invited as the normal. Others may sign up for standby spots, which would make pre-filling missing players that much easier and allowing raids to start on time.
+ 9. CTR Outreach Events (open to anyone) would already be mass advertised.

6+ 4= 0- Compared to baseline
-----------------

I can't speak to the proposed raid tool.

[Partshark]

Alrighty. Time for my semi non-annual post. The tool of which you speak is not the same as the system which is currently in place. The tool that is currently in place has worked well for a long time but we were aware that it has a limitation and lifespan that we're not entirely comfortable with. Thus, we created a new system that, from my personal opinion, is vastly superior than the current choices. I'll break that down in a moment, but I would like to say that some of the information within this post is not entirely accurate and has likely been telephoned to that degree. That is mostly because we haven't been too vocal about the system that is coming or the one in place. I'll try to rectify what I can within my scope.

And from what I know of the current system (not the mystery tool) as a baseline:
1. It is operational now.

The current system is indeed operational and has been in place long before I got here. We, the Raid Liaisons, made some changes to the system to help streamline the process.

2. All sub-guilds are on one spreadsheet which in manually edited.

Sub Guilds and teams are different beasts maintained by different people. They aren't on the same spreadsheet to the degree that this would suggest. The guilds themselves are maintained through the Officers and the Greeter program. They manage the roster number to make sure we're spread equally and no guild gets capped. That system is not within my scope so I won't try to delve too much into that. Suffice it to say, a guild this size requires lots of moving parts.

3. A Guild Officer has to scrub the spreadsheet vs the guild roster data on a schedule. (likely some automation and some manual processes)
4. Raid Team management is via emails, text, chat to contact the correct Officer to coordinate guild rank for repairs. (same in both systems)

This is where I believe you are referring to the teams themselves, if not, see above. Every raiding team is on a spreadsheet that is maintained by the Raid Liaison team. We each have assigned teams that we audit weekly to make sure they are still raiding, roster changes are noted, team pages are kept up to date, name changes are reflected, and proper ranks are assigned to the proper people. We've recently expanded our team to better assist teams. Team management is done via email with the Raid Lead, interaction in game with various members of the team, review of team pages and pretty much any other communication that is available to us.

4a. Raid Teams have a posting on the Team page.

This is correct and unlikely to change with the new system, although it will be much easier to manage.

5. Individuals must coordinate themselves for character moves to correct sub-guild. (same in both systems)

This is and is not correct. If an individual comes to a greeter, liaison, or officer then yes it will be handled individually. If however, the raid leader is managing his team roster accurately then we will know that there is someone on the team that is in a different guild, another team, unguilded, what have you. In that case we take the initiative to coordinate with the team lead on migrating any and all team members to the correct guild. We do this because we want to keep each guild as balanced as possible in regards to members and teams. We don't want all the Mythic teams in one guild, for example. We want to spread the guild achievements out, the repair costs, the guild roster size, etc. That way no one guild bears the burden of all the teams or reaps all the rewards of achievements.

6. Calendar invites are manually done by raid teams.

This is true. This also won't change with the new system. Rather we are providing the tools that are needed by raid teams to easily manage, communicate, audit, coordinate and strategize with themselves in a single, easy to use place. Rather than expecting each team to maintain their own forums, websites, multi-communication hubs etc, we wanted to bring those tools to the teams.

7. The guild raid team schedule is updated manually as officers have time.

This is not true. Officers have no input with any raid team regarding their schedules. This is entirely up to each raid lead. One of the responsibilities of creating a team is managing that team. The officers only provide assistance, guidance, and the tools for teams to succeed. The actual team is self contained, maintain their own rosters, rules, applications and communications. We just want to give teams the tools to do so.

8. No easy way for Community Outreach Events.

This is a valid concern. Not one that falls in my scope, but one we are actively taking steps to change. Our view is that every member of the guild should have the ability to see and participate in any and all guild activities. Recommendations are always welcome, but that doesn't mean that if is something that can be done. That information does, however, give us new ideas on how to better serve the members of the guild.


So, now let's take a look at your proposed solutions and I will try to play devil's advocate. Keep in mind I'm not shooting ideas down, I'll just be providing a different viewpoint if I can.

Here are the advantages that I see from the OpenRaid Solution (similar to guild alliances of old).
= 1. It is operational now.

OR is a fantastic tool and I feel anyone looking for something like this should use it. I prefer it over the in game GroupFinder system.

= 2. We can merge ALL the sub-guilds into one large virtual guild.

As this is the same, I'll point out the flaw. OR maintains OR. CTR would have limited control over actions by people using the system outside of the scope provided by OR. This is a big concern in terms of management.

+ 3. Guild management is simplified by linkage to Battle.net guild listing to handle people added or removed.

You'll be happy to know that automation is one of our goals with the new system. Battle.net provides us with powerful tools that we are greedily taking advantage of like the bunch of geeks we are.

= 4. Raid Team management falls on the Raid Leader. NOTE* The requirement to coordinate guild rank for repairs would still exist.

This is the same as the current system as you have pointed out. While this could be changed, it is unlikely to be. We feel that team management should always be up to the team leaders, so long as they abide by the CTR guidelines.

+ 4a. Raid Teams may create their own separate virtual sub-guild if they like to make management / recruitment / sign-ups / team pages and team web sites that much easier. Individuals can be in as many virtual guilds as they want - go crazy.

The downside with this is managerial. As has been said before, CTR doesn't maintain any other guilds in any other game or on Horde side because the Officers cannot manage it. We have no control over the integrity, rules, behavior of any members not in an official CTR guild. This is the precise reason why only the current guilds are considered CTR and any CTR guild you find anywhere else is fan-made and is not affiliated or officially maintained by anyone at CTR.

= 5. Individuals must coordinate themselves for character moves to correct sub-guild.

As with our system, team leaders would also be able to mass coordinate for their whole team.

+ 6. Individuals with OpenRaid accounts will receive emails of all events open to them to sign up for if they opt for the reminder.

We actually talked about this at one point or another and we decided against it. There is a certain level of trust and expectations that members have when they sign up with CTR. While no one would abuse that, we didn't want to mess around with people's emails. Rather, we're working on a completely separate system that will make your lives easier. This has not been discussed before and it isn't at a point that I am entirely comfortable disclosing more than cryptic teases. Rest assured, your concerns are also concerns that many of us share and are actively looking for solutions. Keep them coming!

+ 7. Events can be loaded to the in-game calendar via the OpenRaid add-on and the GroupCallendar addon.

This can also be done, but is also outside my scope. I will definitely pass this on to the events team. The downside is that everyone would need to have it.

+ 8. Existing teams could set up their existing raid schedules as reoccurring private guild events with their team invited as the normal. Others may sign up for standby spots, which would make pre-filling missing players that much easier and allowing raids to start on time.

I'm not entirely sure this is even necessary. Every team has access to the calendar and can do the same thing in game already. Only those who are invited will even see the invite, which makes this the same as current. OR does do a good job maintaining events, but they aren't really using anything that isn't available to everyone already.

+ 9. CTR Outreach Events (open to anyone) would already be mass advertised.

This is another good point. Also outside my scope, but I can see the benefit of using OR for these events.

There are however, many downsides to OR compared to even what we offer currently. For starters, OR is not CTR. Any rules or guidelines that OR were to put into place that we didn't agree with would be forced upon the guild as a whole. Every single member would be forced to sign up for OR, follow and accept the rules of OR, and download any and all required non-CTR approved addons if they wanted to participate with any of the events using those. The inability to regulate or maintain the guild is a huge concern for me personally.

I do, however, see many good ideas here. If they aren't already in the works, I will be tossing them around my testing box to see what works and what doesn't. The system of which you spoke is in testing. It is not currently in a state that is ready, but we have done extensive testing on the features that are ready. I can tell you that this is a much better system and everyone leading a team, running with a team, or even looking for a team will find this system a welcome change. I wholeheartedly welcome other ideas and suggestions to get lobbed at me. I don't care how far out, awkward, silly or middle of the road the idea seems. Every idea has something in it and even if it isn't something we would be willing to do, that doesn't mean there isn't something in the idea that is worth tossing around the lab.

[Weru]

Thank you for addressing these so completely Partshark. I do feel much better now.

I just wanted to clarify a couple that I think I was unclear on.

7. The guild raid team schedule is updated manually as officers have time.

This is not true. Officers have no input with any raid team regarding their schedules. This is entirely up to each raid lead. One of the responsibilities of creating a team is managing that team. The officers only provide assistance, guidance, and the tools for teams to succeed. The actual team is self-contained, maintain their own rosters, rules, applications and communications. We just want to give teams the tools to do so.

I was referring to the listing maintained on the Raid Team Master List most recently updated in Feb 2015. I didn't mean to imply that the officers have input other than that they end up being the maintainers of this massive document = time for them.

+ 4a. Raid Teams may create their own separate virtual sub-guild if they like to make management / recruitment / sign-ups / team pages and team web sites that much easier. Individuals can be in as many virtual guilds as they want - go crazy.

The downside with this is managerial. As has been said before, CTR doesn't maintain any other guilds in any other game or on Horde side because the Officers cannot manage it. We have no control over the integrity, rules, behavior of any members not in an official CTR guild. This is the precise reason why only the current guilds are considered CTR and any CTR guild you find anywhere else is fan-made and is not affiliated or officially maintained by anyone at CTR.

I meant the virtual guilds as raid team pages not actual guilds. But yes, I can understand the behavior issues.

+ 7. Events can be loaded to the in-game calendar via the OpenRaid add-on and the GroupCallendar addon.

This can also be done, but is also outside my scope. I will definitely pass this on to the events team. The downside is that everyone would need to have it.

Actually, they don't all have to have it. Just the person that is posting from the tool to the game calendar needs the addon. It is kind of like the person that posts logs needs a tool to do that for the team. I'm sure that we could duplicate the transfer function into an addon as well for any tool the guild develops.


I guess what I'm hoping to help do is find ways to automate functions to save guild officers time so that they have more time for the actual game, at the same time make more information and features available to the members to join raids that are available to them (times, open positions, standby spots), and lastly to work the CTR community aspect to allow us to share our love of raiding with people who might be completely new to raiding in a friendly environment.

I wish that I had the time to volunteer on the project myself, but I've been out of programming for over 12 years and since retirement I have about 1,000 projects that my family has let me put on hold the last 25 years to complete. Thanks for listening. If I come up with any ideas or snipets I'll pass them along.

[Shoeboots]

Sort of a random thought and might be technologically impossible but one thing that always irked me a bit as a raider in CTR is that my team name doesn't show up in wow progress or even above my head. Would it be possible for teams to actually form their own guilds and then be connected to Greenwall? I guess it's possible they could continue to use the 'CTR' part of the guild name, so for example, the guild for Salad Senate or Asparagus Initiative would be <CTR Salad Senate> or <CTR The Asparagus Initiative>

I don't know how greenwall actually works so I don't know how complex this request is.

[PatKrane]

Sort of a random thought and might be technologically impossible but one thing that always irked me a bit as a raider in CTR is that my team name doesn't show up in wow progress or even above my head. Would it be possible for teams to actually form their own guilds and then be connected to Greenwall? I guess it's possible they could continue to use the 'CTR' part of the guild name, so for example, the guild for Salad Senate or Asparagus Initiative would be <CTR Salad Senate> or <CTR The Asparagus Initiative>

I don't know how greenwall actually works so I don't know how complex this request is.

This is a tough thing all around. The way that greenwall works is through the guild information pages, which have a limited number of characters. We wouldn't be able to handle 50+ raid teams each having their own guild.

Also, we can't do that because we need to be able to serve our community in multiple ways, many of which require guild controls (calendars, promoting ranks, and sometimes to enforce guild guidelines). Our officers would be held helpless at times, and in the long run that just won't work.

However, we DO have some things in the works with our Raid Builder AND MORE coming soon that may help this situation at least a little... hopefully before 6.2 hits. So keep an eye out for more info!

[nova62]

Thank you very much for the excellent.













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